PAR

[superq]

OK so we are looking at tee signs for crestview and I think we should list pro and Am pars,I know there is a lot of discussion on other boards but I am curious what everyone thinks is the best way to establish par on a course. For example If we get big shunga park it will be set up as a Gold course with an overall distance in the 8-9k foot range. Is it better to look at the holes based on distance or to look at the average scores on the holes and base par on that or something else?

Preparing for long Mike reply.

[Schoen-hopper]

If you have never played the layout your trying to establish par for, use the score average chart that estimates Scoring average for different distances and foliage thickness. It'll figure it for different skill levels too.

If you have played the layout and have some rated players with recorded rounds, use the WCP calculator and follow the instructions for finding hole SSA. After you know your course SSA, you can round your hole SSA's to the appropriate par number. If you don't want the pars to be for 1000 rated players, you can adjust them for 950 or 900 or whatever.

My personal preference would be to leave the hole scratch scoring averages as a decimal (example: 2.7). Then players can compare their own rating to 1000 and find exactly what they specifically should shoot on the hole.

[Schoen-hopper]

I'm going to be actually using a lot of these forms this weekend. I'll give a detailed report of what I find when I get done.

If you want to try some of this and have some questions, I'll try to help out.

[superq]

I used the template for crestview (normal layout) have 4 rated players to use and a total of 49 unique rounds, the sheet is very cool, comes up with a ssa of 47.02, I think people would really freek if they saw a pro par 2 on a hole. I am going to layout the new gold course tonight, we will play it for league hopefully wednesday and I will see what those rounds show for the layout. I am guesssing that it will be close to a SSA of 59.

[_dm4]

Just make um all 3's!

[Schoen-hopper]

12 strokes tougher is alot for any course.

Check out what Chuck has done with the layouts at Highbridge.

http://www.highbridgehillssc.com/disc.html

[Master Dyck]

I second DM4, Has anyone ever played a tournament with par 4s or 5s. And if so how often does it happen. I thought that disc golf's unwritten rule was all baskets are par 3. Now I have seen tee signs with Par 4 and Par 5 and my understanding is that this is for recreational players. And the ones I've seen didn't make any sense. Some of the par 4 and par 5s were shorter distances than the par 3s. I played Round Rock, TX and they have a 1008' Basket. Still Par 3.

[Schoen-hopper]

That's obviously ridiculous isn't it Dyck? I'm pretty sure Don was joking.

This par 3 thing that got the game going is now a limitation. Par 4's and 5's often make much better holes. It is true that the design has to be set so that placement is important and long arms don't have easy birdies without risk involved.

I've heard A LOT of debate on the issue. I have confidence that using SSA is a surefire method for determine hole par. There is a lot that will be gained by making courses to a higher standard than par 54.

You have seen signs that say: 300 feet, par 5. This is pretty much a joke as players will start making eagles after a few days. There are now colored tees that correspond to different skill levels. Gold is 975+ rating. Blue is 925-975. White is 875-925. Red is below 875.

I suggest using gold decimal value par and letting other players use their rating to adjust their own par for each hole, but it would also be of value to include hole pars adjusted to the scoring averages of the divisions for which the particular tees were designed for.

[poopshoot]

What makes you so sure Don was joking? Sounds pretty logical to me, unless there is a hole or two that is just ridiculous.

[Master Dyck]

Sounds to me like you're turning the sport of disc golf into your own personal science project Mike. Why make the sport so hard to keep score as to turn away possible players that just want to have fun. Why not have a 1008' par 3? It's all the same in the end and everyone plays by the same rules. You're either over Par or under Par. And you try to better your score each time out. What's wrong with that? What exactly is your end result by making the game so hard? By coming up with a formula that it will take most people so long to learn, that by the time they do learn it they've wished they never learned the sport in the first place? (obviously over-reacting here but you get my point) Do you know what KISS stands for? I suggest we use it here.

[DiscGolfKid]

Total score is more important imo.

[McCabe]

Do you know what KISS stands for?

Keep It a Safe Summer?

[Friz-Rocker]

All par 3`s is my vote.Changing the par doesn`t change the outcome of the competition,or are we playing to brag about our scores?

[Anakha]

All par 3`s is my vote.Changing the par doesn`t change the outcome of the competition

Hear Hear!

I don't see the point in putting the "par" on the tee signs, just put the Hole#, Distance, and the pin positions.

Pars are useless except to rate hole difficulty.
And to say- "Hey, look at me, I'm Birdie-licious!"

It's all about total strokes in the end, I don't care if I bogey every hole, as long as I score lower than my opponents.

[McCabe]

Par 4's and 5's are the future of this sport, thats all there is to it..look at the USDGC, and the Players Cup, and 80% of the NT's, all have par 4's and 5's.