Moving #13's Short Tee at Herman Hill

[Schoen-hopper]

There has been a suggestion to move 13's short tee back 30 feet longer.

This has been put on the agenda for the annual meeting to record an advisory vote by the members on what they think should happen.

I was against puting course design issues up for general vote. Since it will be happening, I would like to do my best to inform everyone of what I know, to give them the best chance to make the best decision. Note: it is just an advisory vote, but a real vote by the board may ensue in the next meeting.

[Schoen-hopper]

REASON'S FOR MOVING THE TEE PAD:

I've been given very little info on this. Just that someone suggested to Bill that the tee pad be moved back. My understanding is as follows.

1) It is not where it was originally designed to be placed. Bot Potts moved it up to where it is now.

2) Since the trees have grown fuller in front of the pad, the right handed back hand throw is not as easily executed.

[Bangrrr]

Seems like a lot of time and money to spend for no real "improvement"....

[Schoen-hopper]

REASON'S AGAINST:

1) The trees would be in less play. Most who complain about Herman Hill either remark on it's safety issues (something we are stuck with as the park has shrunk yet we are continually trying to improve this) or it's lack of trees in play. I love this hole now more than ever because it is one where the trees are actually IN PLAY. The fact that they are close to the tee makes them unique to only a couple of holes on the course.

2) The number of flight paths to the hole would be reduced. To the short pin, depending on the wind direction, there is currently a good low route, left hand or righty-sidearm route, tomahawk shot, thumber, or high anhyzer helix shot. To the long pin, there is the righty hyzer, the low, middle, & high annhyzers, & the roller. If the tee was moved back, many of these shots wouldn't be feasable and one or two routes would be the norm. On the short pin, for example, the low shot would become too high risk and most would lack the distance to risk the thumber or tomahawk. For the long pin, the subtleties of the anhyzer lines would be blended together. The roller might actually become a more prominent shot, but interference with 14's fairway would increase.

3) Balance. There are numberous holes on the course where lefty is given options that are insufficient when compared with righty's options on the few lefty holes. Examples that come to mind are hole 2 long tee, hole 8 long tee, hole 16 long tee. Granted, HH is much better than Oak when it comes to lefty/ righty balance. Why does every hole have to be equal or advantage righty? To say that this hole in particular is not righty friendly is just not true. Both of my aces on this hole have come on the righty hyzer line.

4) Balance. I think 13's long tee should also be considered. Having the short as shorter and more wooded gives it some balance with the long tee. Moving it longer and more open reduces the balance.

5) Scoring variety would be diminished. This is perhaps the worst thing. Moving this longer would take away the birdies while taking the trees out of play would reduce the bogies. You are left with a boring hole that is bad from a design point of view. As it is, the long location can be birdied with a good drive. Move it farther and it won't happen. It won't make it more likely to bogey though, as players will have an easier hyzer line to the hole.


The bench would have to be moved as well. I see extra volunteer hours better spent clearing out 2nd or 3rd pin placments scheduled for Colwich.

I've spent a lot of time in this park and have been a part of some of the more recent minor design changes. I'd just ask everyone to consider what I've mentioned and not vote for a move just for the sake of "a change".

[Friz-Rocker]

The change would definitely make my flipshot easier.......one good reason why it probably won`t happen.

[mrsenortyler]

I curse this hole every time I get on the teepad, I hate how how close it is to the darn trees.

That being said, if the teepad was moved, the hole would be too easy, and the lefty-ness of the hole would be lost. I say don't move it.

[Schoen-hopper]

The change would definitely make my flipshot easier.......one good reason why it probably won`t happen.

What would you do on a wooded course where trees are in your way EVERYWHERE? Guess we'll find out at the Ice Bowl!

[disclizard]

I like it where it is cause if i get a good shot on that pad and the person who is in a higher division hits the trees or gets screwed by the wind from trying to go around then it just evened us up. leave it as is. Although i would trim back about a foot of bush on hole 18 short pad. getting to where the hole is almost closed compleatly

[Friz-Rocker]

The change would definitely make my flipshot easier.......one good reason why it probably won`t happen.

What would you do on a wooded course where trees are in your way EVERYWHERE? Guess we'll find out at the Ice Bowl!

I rule on wooded finesse courses with more variety of shots than most people and a great shortgame.

[Schoen-hopper]

Something I'm thinking on this hole is that every year the ceiling of the tunnel shot raises up a little more. Pretty soon it'll be a more legitimate shot (already is in the winter), but not if the pad was moved back.

[Ring]

Move the pad!!!!!

[Schoen-hopper]

After some discussion, those in attendance agreed that a better solution than moving the pad would be to add to it so that it's shape is more condusive to throwing to either fairway.

[Friz-Rocker]

Then add to the left side.

[Schoen-hopper]

Then add to the left side.

That's what I think. The pad point away from the target to the right. Adding to the pad to the left, perhaps in a baseball field shape, would make sense, but wouldn't do anything for the arguement that the right-hand-back-hand hyzer is too hard (which with a North wind, it is not).

[mrsenortyler]

but wouldn't do anything for the arguement that the right-hand-back-hand hyzer is too hard (which with a North wind, it is not).

Because the wind always blows from the north in Kansas!