Derby Course

[dragonessk]

I don't know that this makes a difference, but I won't play derby anymore because of the lack of routine maintenance to the park. It is definitely not a casual player course.

[Peng]

lack of routine maintenance to the park. It is definitely not a casual player course.

This is true. And 17 Derby is so not the same as 17 Oak. Oak has way more room for error and requires way less accuracy. Derby is just a challenging mf'n course and that's how its gotta be.

ALSO I think a lot of you seasoned players need to stop being so proud of your own skills. The truth is there are not enough courses around and it would be great to have a few more in the Wichita area. For the growth of the sport, it's kind of unfair to build a course that is so rough and rigidly difficult to play that any casual player wouldn't enjoy it. If you want difficult holes then some old-fashioned ALTERNATE TEE-PADS would do the trick. I understand that a lot of work went into this course and whats done is done. I enjoy it and its unforgiving challenges. however, I can only hope that any future courses are designed with more consideration for everyone and not just those who want a challenge. This is a growing sport and we should all work on supporting it's growth.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a few more courses that ams and pros alike would love playing? Courses wouldn't be so crowded on nice days and holidays!

[ditziwt]

You are hosting a charity homerun derby competition and you can invite 10 players past or present ? We are keeping it clean so you can not use anyone guilty of using steroids of any kind. You are also trying to raise the most money by having the best derby possible.

^^^ WTF??

[Schoen-hopper]

Hey, as long as it's Derby related. Kentucky Derby, Home Run Derby, Derby hats...

I'm going to put some blue flags back in to mark some of the tees better out there. Post some flyers on the ace race and such. Mark a DZ on 17.

I'm also going to look the course over carefully to decide the best OB solutions for league play and to possibly add to a course map. Looking at 17, big creek bank, smaller inlet creek banks, road, etc. I'll post back. Until the tees go in, nothing is set in stone. And from the way it sounds, getting tees may be more difficult than we originally expected.

Yes, short tees are a good solution for beginers out there. I'll probably put some shorter red flags down some time as long as Bill is cool with that. Since they just get mowed over, it may be best to wait until the grass stops growing.

[disclizard]

This is true. And 17 Derby is so not the same as 17 Oak. Oak has way more room for error and requires way less accuracy. Derby is just a challenging mf'n course and that's how its gotta be.

ALSO I think a lot of you seasoned players need to stop being so proud of your own skills. The truth is there are not enough courses around and it would be great to have a few more in the Wichita area. For the growth of the sport, it's kind of unfair to build a course that is so rough and rigidly difficult to play that any casual player wouldn't enjoy it. If you want difficult holes then some old-fashioned ALTERNATE TEE-PADS would do the trick. I understand that a lot of work went into this course and whats done is done. I enjoy it and its unforgiving challenges. however, I can only hope that any future courses are designed with more consideration for everyone and not just those who want a challenge. This is a growing sport and we should all work on supporting it's growth.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a few more courses that ams and pros alike would love playing? Courses wouldn't be so crowded on nice days and holidays!

Very nicely writen .. thank you

I think it was Smitty who i heard this bit of advice from. When you design and build a course you build and design it so that every one can play and enjoy the Game. But keep in mind of expantion in the future. when the course gets well established and your ready to expand to comidate the the better player Then you put in the pro tee boxes. If you really really look at derby course the pro Marking are there and there is No room to move Back farther on most holes. The only way to expand the course it the shorter pads. Maybe we should go ahead and just do that Put in alternate RED flags for the Whole course and settle this whole Derby dispute.

[Friz-Rocker]

We put baskets by water,because it sells discs and drowns young children.

[jump_putter]

WOW! Great read! John is the mad scientist when it comes to design, when I first started playing disc golf I always said the sport would never see its full potential until someone had the foresight to begin designing courses that werent "drive and putt". (par 54) And for anyone who had ever played San Saba they know that these courses are ELITE. Every hole has a "purpose." And trust me, If you cant play at a high level you wouldnt like the courses there. They are tough, but if you make great shots, you're rewarded with scoring opportunities. He is the best in the game and I'd like to hear his opinon on a hole like this since he designs with the best in the world in mind....And dont say I'm pretentious and only care about the pro players (ok, kinda true) because I have the future of ICT disc golf sleeping a room away from me right now. They're 10 and cant throw that far, but ask the players in town, neither are afraid of any hole and tho limited on distance, and find ways to get to the basket.........And hopefully my last word on this topic.. Coming from the ball golf world, not all courses were designed to be played by all players. Maybe we need to put up a sign like at Bethpage: "This is a very difficult course. It should only be played by highly skilled golfers."

[smitty]

JH is maybe the 2nd best in the world. Stan McDaniel by far the best in my opinion. San Saba was awesome, but Circle R isn't as kick butt. The town course in San Saba is probably better then both of them on the Ranch. Harld and the USDGC crew have to be on the list.

Course design has a ton to do with the land that you have to work with. Do you think that anyone could have went wrong with the design of Water Works?

JH would hate hole 17. There is no risk/reward. There is no "safe" shot. There is no "landing zone" It would not be a hole if he was the designer. There is a great article in the latest Disc Golf magazine by John Houck on hole design.

[Schoen-hopper]

Went out to Derby tonight. Remarked the tee on #17. Put in a yellow flags drop zone maybe 300' out? Last time it was too short. Could be too long this time? The player should know that the drop zone is optional and that if they passed the drop zone before passing OB into the water, they are welcome to take their distance. I also marked the a short tee with white (only other color I had with me) at the same location as the drop zone. Don't know if anyone will understand that it is a short tee. Didn't have time to remark any other tees.

I looked into the OB situation with the course. I have some ideas that I think will make sense and help clear up some confusion and make the course more fair. I'll run it by Bill and post back. I did spray a white paint line for the OB road on holes 13 & 15. $6 can of paint gone. Let's see if the line is still there in 3 weeks.

[cfluty]

WOW! Great read! John is the mad scientist when it comes to design, when I first started playing disc golf I always said the sport would never see its full potential until someone had the foresight to begin designing courses that werent "drive and putt". (par 54) And for anyone who had ever played San Saba they know that these courses are ELITE. Every hole has a "purpose." And trust me, If you cant play at a high level you wouldnt like the courses there. They are tough, but if you make great shots, you're rewarded with scoring opportunities. He is the best in the game and I'd like to hear his opinon on a hole like this since he designs with the best in the world in mind....And dont say I'm pretentious and only care about the pro players (ok, kinda true) because I have the future of ICT disc golf sleeping a room away from me right now. They're 10 and cant throw that far, but ask the players in town, neither are afraid of any hole and tho limited on distance, and find ways to get to the basket.........And hopefully my last word on this topic.. Coming from the ball golf world, not all courses were designed to be played by all players. Maybe we need to put up a sign like at Bethpage: "This is a very difficult course. It should only be played by highly skilled golfers."

The sign might be a good idea, haha although would only fit a couple holes. Your right about your kids, had a great fun round with Nick as my partner, OB didn't intimidate him and that's a good sign as it's sometimes difficult to dismiss the hazard.

[Schoen-hopper]

I wouldn't say Derby is intended to be a course for skilled golfers only. It had short tees once, they just got mowed over long since. Because they aren't on the map, and can be tough to find if the flags are gone, I don't think they've ever got much use. I know we wouldn't use them for league, unlike the short tees at our other parks. It is a good idea to put them back in, with some kind of reference on the map. We need a more permanent solution to mark the tees. Buried boards or blocks if we can't get concrete.

[smitty]

Cut a landscape timber in half, drill a 1/2 inch hole in it, drive a 1/2 in chunk of re-bar (??) into to it and you are good. You can dig a trench and put it in the ground and the city can mow over it. Works pretty well.

[Schoen-hopper]

COURSE OB

I will make a document and get it posted under the plexiglass at the course.

*Main Creek. This runs from hole 6 to hole 13.
-For the holes that do not cross it (4, 5, 8, 9, 10, & 11), the fairway side bank will be the OB line. Got to be on top, but as always, if it is questionable, give the benefit of the doubt to the player. Doesn't matter if it's in water or not.
-For the holes that do cross it (6, 12, & 13), that bank is the OB line on both sides. If you are not on top of the bank, it is OB.

*Inlet Creeks. There are 4 of them. One on holes 1, 3, 4, & 5. One on holes 4 & 11. One on hole 12 near the green. And one on hole 9 cutting across the fairway and then forming an island with the main creek. All of these will be casual. That means you can play from the lie, or play on a line straight back from the hole to the nearest point of relief. Typically this is just for water. But there will be a special rule that allows you to take it farther backward from the hole until on top of the bank, if you prefer. Note: on hole 9, the only OB line for the creek is the right bank of the main creek. That means the right stream of the island (main creek is on left of island) is casual and the island itself is safe.

*Street and across is OB. On hole 13, but not restricted to 13.

*Gravel road and across is OB. On holes 13 & 15. OB for all holes though, except 17 & 18.

*Parking lots are OB. Shouldn't come into play.

*Sidewalk and across is OB. On holes 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

*Playground is OB. Hole 7.

*North fence/ property line is OB. Holes 6 & 7. Shouldn't come into play.

*Pond is OB. Comes into play on 14, 15, 16, & 17. Drop zone for hole 17 is optional and only for shots landing OB in the water.

*Yards are OB. Yard grass is distinct from the park grass and is the OB line for holes 15 & 17. On 15, the line is straight, but on 17, the line starts at the pond and zags a little. Not the best OB line, but all we have. Need to stay out of the yards.

*Across Barbed wire fence is OB for 17 only. Across barbed wire fence is not OB for hole 18.
-Special rule: If you go OB over the barbed wire fence, play it where it went out (or from previous lie) up to 2 meters away to give yourself room to throw. If you lie is located within 2m of the fence but not OB, you may take up to 2m relief as well.

[Schoen-hopper]

League at Derby next Tuesday, the 29th. I'll try to post something at the course on OB. See the previous post and note that some of this has changed since last time we played there.

[Schoen-hopper]

League is on for Derby tonight. We'll be flipping for partners at 5:45 SHARP, so don't be late. I'm leaving early from work to make sure this happens. No six-somes if at all possible. If there has to be a six-some, my group will not be in it as it makes payout difficult being the last group in.