Derby Course

[Schoen-hopper]

If your drive lands to the left of the creek on 9 (or 10, 11, 12, 5) it is OB. That should help with interference.

I don't see a good place to lay up on 17. Insane trees on one side and slope to water on the other. You'd probably have to throw less than 80' to consistently make a safe lay up. Which is just demeaning. Then some would face the same dillema again. Play it with wind- it's just insane at that length.

[cfluty]

i liked 17, why change it? its a challenge, and its not supposed to be easy?

[Schoen-hopper]

I love challenging holes as much as anyone. That's why I like hole 9 on this course, while others think it's not fair. That's why I love wooded courses, though some think it's just luck to do well on them. I'm a big fan of par 4's & 5's, though I would still say that a majority of golfers prefer all par 3's, and even short par 3's at that. I like everything about the game that makes it more challenging: trees or foliage, obstacles, elevation changes, wind, fast or tricky greens, long holes with key landing areas. So I love challenging holes as much as anyone.

The problem with hole 17 is ...
*This is the worst hole for a lefty I've ever seen. Righty could keep from losing a disc if he executes a perfect layup, but lefty pretty much has to throw into the trees to set up a 15 foot pitch out to set up another lay-up for a routine 5. If they try to do more, they'll likely get the same score or worse, except they lose a disc.
*As mentioned, there just isn't a landing area, or a lay-up zone. Everything rolls into the water or skips into the trees. If the trees were trimmed back more (a ton of work), it'd be a little better, but then there would be interference issues with hole 18.
*The disc losing factor just turns away players. The water is deep and filled with rocks, which makes retrieving them tough. A lot of players are just going to skip these last 3 holes. If they don't, and they lose several discs, they may not come back. Almost every group I've played with has lost discs on this hole. On a calm day, I say one guy lose 2. He went wading for them, and it didn't look like he was going to get them back.
*The hole is over-punishing to small arms. I love long holes. Driving is my strenth. But this hole, while having a scoring average of 5 or more for the average player, is a wide open shot for a big armed righty. Not interesting at all.
*Even most players who can clear the water are not going to have a drop in duece. If the hole was made shorter, many more players would have a shot at 2 or 3, while still keeping 4 or worse in the equation.
League schedule here for the 20th. Maybe we'll get some wind and see how it plays?

[disclizard]

Mike you nail it right on the head, that was exactly what i was trying to say .. I just don't use words as well but mike you hit it on the nose. I can live with Hole nine also . I accually don't mind it I haven't yet gone out of bounds on that hole. I also haven't lost a disc on 17. not from skill or because I can throw the bomb on that hole cause I can't. It's just pure luck that I have not lost a disc. I have rolled into the water, and more often than not I have ended up deep into the trees and even once on the fareway of 18. Only twice now since all of the changes have I landed with a descent lie for my next shot.. Like i said Its when your with others who lose discs every time they come out thats when it sucks. The last time I was out there this past week Aaron lost two disc in the water. Now he doesn't ever want to come back out to the Derby course. I love the derby course cause I LIKE TREES. I like that challange and like it even more when I exicute that perfect shot through the window I was aiming for. Nothing looks sweeter on a disc golf course than a disc flying perfectly through a a grove of trees missing every thing in its path heading for the target.

With that said there is nothing more heart breaking than seeing a disc get caught buy the wind or maybe even just nervously realesed wrong out into the water knowing you or who ever threw the disc just lost thier best driver. If that was a field of tall ass grass at least you would have hope of finding it. but water holes , mostley really deep water holes suck already with out it being right next to a long narrow fairway that slopes down to the water? WTF?. Even a good shot could stand up and roll into the pond . With all the algee growing it could still be lost just 3 feet out .

Thats what i meen about an UNFAIR hole.

[cfluty]

i don't mean for this to sound demeaning to anyone, but its a $15 disc, if you can't replace it, don't throw it. And I also see how it could be seen as unfair, but I think its a great hole, there aren't many like it, and its one of the few holes you have to play perfectly to be successful. If your scared to throw and lose a disc, take a drop.

[Schoen-hopper]

Derby this Thursday! Singles.

Got new discs in and will have them with me.

[Schoen-hopper]

On the course...

Course OB. All water will be OB. Unless its a stagnant puddle not connected to a creek or pond. Across the creek is OB on 5, 9, 10, & 11 only. The dirt road is OB on all holes but 17 & 18. Sidewalk & across is OB.

Hole 7 & 9. This won't get chipped by Derby until this winter. I have a plastic sheet protector & duct tape. I'll make a sign with something like "temp tee in the woods (with an arrow)" to put on 7's tee sign. Don't have any flags in case someone wants to bring some. I'll try to get there early. If someone does attempt to remove the brush pile (not advisable), scatter it out rather than piling it up again.

Hole 17- Bill said eventually some trees will be removed / trimmed for a better landing zone. And a short tee installed.

[Schoen-hopper]

I wanted to flag a DZ on 17 and maybe a few other tees (7, 15) if needed. Anyone have flags? I can go by Herman Hill and pick some up if I have time, but that is out of the way.

[2]

Good luck tonight and remember "Mud is your friend!!!

[smitty]

Local Winfield kid says: "Thanks for the design on hole 17."

Local Winfield 6th grader makes way to Derby for casual round with his dad. As he walked up to hole 17 wondering what to throw, he grabs his best driver. As bad luck would have it, he grip locks and splashes down several feet into the pond. After pondering what to do, he throws off both shirt and shoes. A short swim later he loves the design. He now has 16 discs to trade at PIAS. On the way back to Winfield he and his dad decide it is such a good business they jump back in and pull out 8 more discs.

Kid loves the hole.

[iqbal]

He should give them to the Wichita club. The club can get them to the owners.

[2]

I wonder which "Play It Again Sports? I would like to go get some of my plastic back.... But not at there price, amost full price!! I can understand having to get in the water and search and would be willing to give them 5 bucks a disc (my discs have my phone number on them!! Dad, your teaching your son well!!! "Hey son, lets give disc golfers a chance to get there disc back. Lets take them to there club nite and say hey, all we want is a thanks........ Yea right!!!

[disclizard]

Wow thats pretty sad. I have three friends who have lost discs in there and now we know they aren't going to get them back. Smitty i can't believe you didn't ask them to return them to the club or at least check for numbers and call the people. they could still keep the discs that they get no answers on and disc that have no info. .

THis also proves that the 17th needs to be reworked and some thing done so people don't loose so many discs on that hole.

[smitty]

He is a 6th grader! His dad isn't a disc golfer. They are both just getting into the sport and don't know the ins and outs of what should go on. They don't even know that there is a club in Wichita. I told the kid that he should try to get them back to the owner if they have a number.

What does 19983 mean to someone who finds a disc? What about Lizard? Do you want him them to go and search the local biker bars until they find someone who answers to that.

If you were that attached to your disc you should have went in after it. I know that I have left 2 discs in the pond there and never plannned on getting them back.

I think there is a big difference between finding a disc in the weeds during a tourney or local league and finding a disc in a moss covered pond when you are the only person on the course.

[Leo D.]

Lil known fact, the LSDisc boys got into this sport by fishing out peoples plastic on the cove of hole 18 at lake shawnee. They are now a pretty big Disc business. So not all bad things come of locals fishin out plastic. If your connected to a disc soooo bad, theres a pretty simple answer, don't throw it around water. But changing a course's design "just because" you can't keep your 150 class "special flying" valkyrie out of the drink is pretty stupid.