The thread about the other thread.....

[Sandman]

So anything get accomplished yesterday? Or a bunch a bitchin? Good thing I wasnt there you guys would've had a hand full from this decade long member to be or not.............

[smitty]

No Bitchin at all! We had a great discussion and are going to do a few things different in 05.

The entire state was well represented. Bill P, Bob, Rog, Brian S, DM4, Randy, Mace, Wife and myself were all there.

I am going to do a more formal write up once I get all the info together and have a little more time.

Here is the short version.

Bonus Events are going to be done away with. You will not be able to go to a tourney and pick up 5 extra points.

A person can attend an unlimited number of events for points. No events will be dropped and all your points will count. The points will only be used only for trophies at the end of the year banquet.

We are going to do away with the skins match at the end of the year. We are going to do a "bonus payout" at the last event of the year.
-Here is how a person can qualify for the bonus event.
1-At each event the top open, am, women, and jr finisher will qualify.
2-You must be a member at the start of the event.
3- The "bonus payout" will be roughly equal to the skins payout last year.
4- Over $1000.00 last year.

We talked about some other things also. I think that we made some great changes that are going to help all KDGA participants.

I will get a more detailed overview of what went down, when I get back to Winfield.

Smitty

[Schoen-hopper]

I wanted to discuss the end of the season contest (formally the skins) for 2005. I saw many other threads that went over some of the same information, but I chose this one because it was the most current.


I read over my KDGA newsletter. It mentioned the same thing that was mentioned here in this post. That the most significant change in 2005 will be the end of season contest. We are going to have a bonus payout at the last event rather than the skins competition.

I must say that my first thoughts on this is that we are losing possibly the most awaited, most dramatic, and most unique event of the year. That is the way it is with change, though. People are often hesitant to change even though changing things usually works out better for everyone, heightening their awareness in the process.

The people that attended the KDGA meeting in December are people that dedicate a lot of time and energy to the organization. For their efforts, it is appropriate that they should be the ones to make these sorts of decisions. I'm not challenging this particular decision as much as I am questioning to find where this is headed and what we are learning in the process.


Questions about the end of the year event, then... Will it be at Lakewood Park in Salina? Will it be the regular course, the skins course, or a completely new layout? Will the bonus payout be included with the regular payout or will there be extra holes for those qualified and a seperate pot amongst them? Will the payout be the typical top 40% payout, or different?

Getting warmed up. Should the event be held in Salina? It is a centralized location geographically, but maybe not the fewest cumulative miles to travel when considering how many miles the average golfer drives to Wichita rather than Salina. The greatest majority of the members do live down South. And does the Lakewood course test all of the skills of a golfer, as this final test should? I'm in favor of a course that mixes the types of holes up well, with plenty of difficulty (like the skins courses traditionally have been). Certainly Lakewood is a good course, but I haven't heard many mention it as one of their favorites. I'm thinking that this "super" event should be something that everyone looks forward to in more ways than just the money.

I want to look at the changes and how they will effect the season. The way I'm reading, the top (not previously qualified) finisher for each event, including each division (Open, Amatuer, Womens, and Junior), will have a shot at the bonus payout. Points will still be tracked (without tournament limit as this will be insignificant) and that will determine trophies given out at the banquet.

Disecting this further, I can see that up to 33 players in each division will be eligible for this bonus payout. This is due to their being 33 events currently on the schedule, which by-the-way, I think is great! Setting aside the formailities, it seems like we are saying that everyone who joins the KDGA will have a change at the bonus payout. True, some events may have all previously qualified players, espescially the small ones, but often the last place player will be earning their spot as the players who finished better were already "in."

Another possible result of the new qualifying system would be smaller tournament attendance, espescially in the first half of the year. While I know that the bonus payout is not the main reason that people attended tournaments, I think the points race did raise attendance as people had to fight for their spots in the finals. High tournament attendance seems to be something that everyone wants. More people= big payouts! Things that are relevant factors in attendance deserve discussion and consideration.

What I liked about the skins competition was how balanced it was. The best players made it in, but only if they earned it over the year. And even then, with the extra challenges of a difficult skins course along with the skins format, it was still anybody's cash. With the new format things may work out differently. I'll give you a scenario: Some really good player is travelling through the region and learns about the bonus payout. He decides to hit a KDGA event of his choice and pays his dues. He wins the event easily as he will win the final event along with everyones' contributions throughout the year. It just seems to me that this person didn't earn it over the season, which used to be the spirit of qualifying for this event. This also seems to be a discouragement for players that are considering moving up in division.

I'm wondering: what was the vision in changing the format? For one, no more complaining about how we will do the skins! I can see that by mixing it up, we will get an idea of what works best. Maybe getting more players to join from other regions is something that we want. It would get a little more recognition for the KDGA. I can also see that if we had several hundred members, the qualifying would be a significant challenge, which would be better.

One thing that makes the end of the skins easier to take, is keeping the points race. Earlier it was mentioned that their would be a prize for the most tournaments attended. I think the points race could be used for this purpose. To give importance to the points race, I think it should be a huge prize. Maybe give a very big prize to the top Am and a large cash prize for the Open champion (as well as the Kassner Cup!). I think that this would do a lot for attendance throughout the year. This would give the balance back as at least one faithful KDGA tour player would be rewarded for all of their miles!


Just my $.02. What does everyone else think about this? I'd most like to hear from those who motioned for the change.

[McCabe]

I wanted to discuss the end of the season contest (formally the skins) for 2005. I saw many other threads that went over some of the same information, but I chose this one because it was the most current.


I read over my KDGA newsletter. It mentioned the same thing that was mentioned here in this post. That the most significant change in 2005 will be the end of season contest. We are going to have a bonus payout at the last event rather than the skins competition.

I must say that my first thoughts on this is that we are losing possibly the most awaited, most dramatic, and most unique event of the year. That is the way it is with change, though. People are often hesitant to change even though changing things usually works out better for everyone, heightening their awareness in the process.

The people that attended the KDGA meeting in December are people that dedicate a lot of time and energy to the organization. For their efforts, it is appropriate that they should be the ones to make these sorts of decisions. I'm not challenging this particular decision as much as I am questioning to find where this is headed and what we are learning in the process.


Questions about the end of the year event, then... Will it be at Lakewood Park in Salina? Will it be the regular course, the skins course, or a completely new layout? Will the bonus payout be included with the regular payout or will there be extra holes for those qualified and a seperate pot amongst them? Will the payout be the typical top 40% payout, or different?

Getting warmed up. Should the event be held in Salina? It is a centralized location geographically, but maybe not the fewest cumulative miles to travel when considering how many miles the average golfer drives to Wichita rather than Salina. The greatest majority of the members do live down South. And does the Lakewood course test all of the skills of a golfer, as this final test should? I'm in favor of a course that mixes the types of holes up well, with plenty of difficulty (like the skins courses traditionally have been). Certainly Lakewood is a good course, but I haven't heard many mention it as one of their favorites. I'm thinking that this "super" event should be something that everyone looks forward to in more ways than just the money.

I want to look at the changes and how they will effect the season. The way I'm reading, the top (not previously qualified) finisher for each event, including each division (Open, Amatuer, Womens, and Junior), will have a shot at the bonus payout. Points will still be tracked (without tournament limit as this will be insignificant) and that will determine trophies given out at the banquet.

Disecting this further, I can see that up to 33 players in each division will be eligible for this bonus payout. This is due to their being 33 events currently on the schedule, which by-the-way, I think is great! Setting aside the formailities, it seems like we are saying that everyone who joins the KDGA will have a change at the bonus payout. True, some events may have all previously qualified players, espescially the small ones, but often the last place player will be earning their spot as the players who finished better were already "in."

Another possible result of the new qualifying system would be smaller tournament attendance, espescially in the first half of the year. While I know that the bonus payout is not the main reason that people attended tournaments, I think the points race did raise attendance as people had to fight for their spots in the finals. High tournament attendance seems to be something that everyone wants. More people= big payouts! Things that are relevant factors in attendance deserve discussion and consideration.

What I liked about the skins competition was how balanced it was. The best players made it in, but only if they earned it over the year. And even then, with the extra challenges of a difficult skins course along with the skins format, it was still anybody's cash. With the new format things may work out differently. I'll give you a scenario: Some really good player is travelling through the region and learns about the bonus payout. He decides to hit a KDGA event of his choice and pays his dues. He wins the event easily as he will win the final event along with everyones' contributions throughout the year. It just seems to me that this person didn't earn it over the season, which used to be the spirit of qualifying for this event. This also seems to be a discouragement for players that are considering moving up in division.

I'm wondering: what was the vision in changing the format? For one, no more complaining about how we will do the skins! I can see that by mixing it up, we will get an idea of what works best. Maybe getting more players to join from other regions is something that we want. It would get a little more recognition for the KDGA. I can also see that if we had several hundred members, the qualifying would be a significant challenge, which would be better.

One thing that makes the end of the skins easier to take, is keeping the points race. Earlier it was mentioned that their would be a prize for the most tournaments attended. I think the points race could be used for this purpose. To give importance to the points race, I think it should be a huge prize. Maybe give a very big prize to the top Am and a large cash prize for the Open champion (as well as the Kassner Cup!). I think that this would do a lot for attendance throughout the year. This would give the balance back as at least one faithful KDGA tour player would be rewarded for all of their miles!


Just my $.02. What does everyone else think about this? I'd most like to hear from those who motioned for the change.

Good Lord Write a book Author Schoen-hopper!!!!

[puttslut]

Just my $.02.

Cliffs for the lazy (like me)

Questions about the end of the year event, then... Will it be at Lakewood Park in Salina?

Will it be the regular course, the skins course, or a completely new layout?

Will the bonus payout be included with the regular payout or will there be extra holes for those qualified and a seperate pot amongst them?

Will the payout be the typical top 40% payout, or different?

Getting warmed up. Should the event be held in Salina?

And does the Lakewood course test all of the skills of a golfer, as this final test should?

I'm wondering: what was the vision in changing the format?

What does everyone else think about this?

[Notorious ROG]

Please don't Monday morning Quaterback, participate in the future meetings if you want to help mold the KDGA. Opinions are welcomed but your participation is MORE important than your opinions and opinions are too late at this point.

Much discussion at the meeting lead to the changes, these changes are rooted in increasing KDGA membership & participation.

The end of year tourney will still be the most anticipated event, cause if you QUALIFY, the event has GREAT payout & your entry is FREE.

The event was centrally located in the State to encourage greater turnouts, other courses will be considered going forward possibly as long as they are centrally located.

[smitty]

Rog-

You still have to be a paid member of the tournament. The bonus payout will go to the people who have qualified, based on their performance.

Smitty

[Notorious ROG]

Thanks for clarification Smitty, the bonus payout is above & beyond the tourney payout for those who QUALIFIED during the season...... I hope I qualify that is for sure.

This format makes every Tourney important for those trying to QUALIFY. And should encourage greater attendance at all Tournies as well as the year end Tourney/Awards Banquet.

ROG

[Eaglehigh99]

In addition, it is anticipated that using the points race to award trophies will keep people who are already qualified coming to the tournaments. Having a trophy to show that you were the top points earner in your division, or the KDGA as a whole, in any given year is great.

[Schoen-hopper]

Rog, I'm not trying to undermine the work of those who met to discuss the future of the KDGA. Rather, I would like to see it focused through discussion. The meeting right before Christmas in Salina was a little inconvenient for me, or else I would have been there. I think I have been respectful of the efforts of those who attended. You said there was much discussion at the meeting in regards to this. If I had been the one who attended the meeting and someone else had questions for the decisions I had made, I would do my best to explain the groups' discussion and reasoning, rather than tell the person that their opinion means squat if they weren't at the meeting. It doesn't sound like anything is set in stone yet, so members' opinions are still important.


As far as the qualifying goes: We had 23 Open, 33 Ams, and a handful of Women and Juniors last year. All of these players except maybe a few ams would have qualified, had we used this system. With the tournament number increasing, even more will be able to qualify. Until we get well over a hundred members, the question will be: "Who will not qualify?", because basically everybody will. A player will have a better chance towards the end of the year, when the other players have already qualified. Players will only have to attend say an average of 3 tournaments to qualify, rather than 12 or more.




Summarizing my other questions...

1) Their was a lot of good things going for the skins competition. What was the vision in changing the format? What will be improved? How will this draw larger attendance?

2) How will the final contest be played? Which course/ what format/ what payout?

3) Is there going to be a bonus prize for the most tournaments attended? Will the points race be used for this purpose? Will there be a larger prize for first place in each division, or just the trophies? I mention this because I think its important to tourney attendance. If the people who were attending 12-15 tourneys before decide to attend only 1 or a handful until qualified, the overall attendance would drop. Since the bonus payout can potentially go to someone who only attends one event, I think we should consider a large prize for the player who has the best season to make the points race more significant and keep the players coming to tournaments.


I'm only giving my ideas on what I think would be good for the KDGA.
I don't want anyone to feel like I'm not appreciative of other people's thoughts. That's actually what I want to find out: what ideas has everyone been kicking around?

[Notorious ROG]

Mike, I welcome your questions but trying to explain it on this board is futile. Call me or track me down at the course. Our intent is to make the KDGA better for all DG'ers in KS.

Much discussion & thought was put into this by those in attendance. We covered your questions & many more. You should of ridden up with Bill, Bob & myself, then you could have seen this evolve in our discussions. It's intent covers several issues we were trying to resolve. Attendance, participation, a true state champion, fun, fairness, growth of KDGA, increased membership, etc.

Some concepts were borrowed from other clubs i.e. Texas 10.

It was well thought out by those in attendance. It better be set in stone or I wasted my time participating in a open KDGA meeting for the soul purpose of resolving these issues.

Everyone is busy that time of year, but several people, who cared enough, took time out to attend.

ROG

[cottenokie]

There are alot of people that care about what is going on. But having a meeting in the middle of a work week instead of on a weekend were I am sure if enough notice was given double or more would make the drive. It is not like everybody has the middle of the week off. Alot of people still had to work. Then on top of that 2 days before x-mas come on it could not have met on the weekend before?

Don't take this the wrong way i think that from what I read in the newsletter and this thread there was alot of acomplishments. But there still is a few questions. All Mike from what I read is wanting is a little clarification to the new standards. Also others would like to know. It should be here so everybody can understand.

[Notorious ROG]

We talked about Juniors, ladies, Am II's, and semi-pro players (who moved up from AM) what incentive do they have to join KDGA? They have very little chance of making the Final 10. So, should they just donate $ to the top 10 players for the year end skins? Should semi-pro players move down to AM, etc.

We talked about why do people not travel to Colby/Norton, Ransom, Dodge City, Hutch (:oops: sorry Brian) I've been to most and they are a blast), but more people might make the trip to qualify at those events.

We talked about Touring players being left out of KDGA because they can't attend enough KDGA tourneys to qualify so they don't join.

We talked about the KC, lawrence & Emporia folks who don't join KDGA because..... well we don't know why?

We talked about trophies for points winners, most events attended, etc.

We talked about disciplinary actions, Rules, etc.

We talked about schedules....

We talked about dues, shirts, minis....

We talked about a newsletter, way to go Stacy!

Gosh we talked about things I can't even remember right now. We were there for hours.

But after all the discussions and ideas we heard, we opted for some changes we hope are going to help KDGA GROW.

Anybody? What else did I miss?

ROG

[Eaglehigh99]

Mike:

I also understand that you have questions. Just like Roger, I'll be glad to talk to you if you'll just give me a call or catch me on the course. We could also take a few minutes after the next ACDGC board meeting.

Hopefully, more will be explained in the next KDGA newsletter but, at this point, it is my understanding that the decisions have been made for 2005 and will not be changed. If they don't work, we'll see about changes for 2006. Personally, I believe all of the decisions made were well thought out, discussed adequately and will be of a long-term benefit to the KDGA.


Cottenokie:

I know the meeting was scheduled at an inconvenient time because I had to take off of work early myself to be there. But, I felt it important to be there so I made the effort. I'm certain it was inconvenient for quite a few of the others that went. Maybe next year we can try to schedule a meeting around one of the final tournaments.

Meaning no disrespect from here but, it would be impossible to adequately discuss and explain everything that went on in the meeting. If you come to the Wichita Ice Bowl: catch any of us that were there and I'm sure whomever will do their best to answer your questions.

[_dm4]

Here is my take on skins vs qualifier. Lets say we did a skins match like we did in the past, and lets also say that we did it on 10 events. Who would play in it? Probably the 10 best pros and 10 best ams. Who would win? One of the top pros would probably get most of the money. Now, lets say everyone qualifies for this end of the year bash. Great! We all meet in Salina, have a lot of fun, and probably the best guys in the state will win. But also the best juniors and women! (and ams). But there is a chance that someone like, oh, let me see... Got to think a minute. Maybe, if dm4 gets off his arse and plays open this year, or pro masters, he could win! I know you really have to use your imagination for this one, but it could happen! Every dog has his day, right!

So there you have it. Everyone is there for tons of fun, and everyone gets a chance to WIN. Any questions? Buehler, Buehler...


Don